Register of Debates in Congress, Comprising the Leading Debates and Incidents of the First Session of the Nineteenth Congress Page: 35
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GALES: &?■ SEA.TOW-'S KEG-ISTER
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SENATE.]
Ohio School Lands—Prevention of Desertion.
[Ja*. 12,
plete control oyer those lands, though the majority of the •
Legislature were of opinion that they had; jet, to put the
whole thing at nest, and to allow tire Legislature to pro-
ceed without any embarrassment, they had applied to
Congress for its sanction to sell; as, at any rate, this sanc-
tion Wonld (fuiet any doubt which purchasers might have
of. the title, unless the consent of CoHgtess was obtained.
Mr. HARRISON had lrad the honor of a seat in the Se-
nate of Ohio when this matter was brought before it, and
there was not an individual in that body but was convinc-
ed that the State had an entire control ovW the land; but
m the State it was otherwise. Tliese sections of land are
inhabited by thse most indifferent class of men to be found
in the Western Country, who removed the timber, and
whatever else was valuable, and the people were desirous
that the land should be sold, and the fond placed where
they could come at lire avails in an easy manner.
Mr. HOIjM.ES thought the Legislature of Ohio had no
eolitrol over'ttae land at all, without the consent of the in-
Jisbitemts—it-is a grant in fee to the inhabitants of the
townships, and Congress cfcrald not in any way interfere.
It was a coihnwn.thing amongst them in the North, where
a tract off land had been granted for the use of schools, or
of the Ministry, to change the nature of the property by
the consent of the Legislature, and, in this way, the Legis-
lature «f Ohio coxdd interfere.
Mr. VVO<)l)IK;«Y suggested, that the gentleman from
Jtsine tad probably not adverted to a proviso jn the bill
pre vesting any sale- Without the express consent of the re-
spective towns; either the Union, the State of Ohio, or the
respective towns, had the whole interest, or each a i'mc-
tioiiat interest in these lands. Wliichever might be the
truth on a strict legal construction* it seemed expedient
to pass a bill like the present, to quiet doubts and contro-
versies : for then the consent of the grantor, ot the grantee,
and the cestuvque trust would all be had before the title
was pretended to be conveyed to any individual. The ex-
pediency of selling these lands, and altering the character
of the funds for the aid of schools, he was willing to leave
to tin- decision of those most interested in their expendi-
ture. The people of Ohio had both more knowledge
about the sales, and more at stake in the benefits of them,
than we had; and, should the bill pass, he thought there
was no danger of their wasting funds so important to their
welfare, and expressly required by the bill to be in future
devoted to their original and laudable object.
Mr. ROWAN stated," that the bill asserted that the right
to the school-lands was in the State of Ohio, and yet pro-
vided for a release of that right by the United States.
NTow, either the United States had, or had not, title to
those lands. If the title was in the Legislature of the S tate
of Ohio, for the benefit of schools, as the advocates of this
bill asserted* then the bill providing for a release of that
title by the United States, was useless. It'was worse than
useless. The passage of it would imply a reproachful ig-
norance on the part of Congress of the nature and extent
of the title of the United States to those lands. If the title
to those lands was really in the United States, it ought to
be so stated in the bill—and not as the bill purported, that
the title was in the Legislature of the State of Ohio. But
it was- evident, Mr. R. stated, that the United States had
no title to those lands—that she had absolutely relinquish-
ed them to the Legislature of the State of Ohio for school
purposes, upon the erection and admission of that State
into the Union, and therefore, he was against the bill, as
an act of superfluous legislation, which could not be pass-
ed by that body, consistently with proper self respect—as
an act not within the sphere of its legitimate powers. But
it is alleged, said Mr. H. that although the Legislature of
the State of Ohio is entirely satisfied that the title to those
lands is exclusively in that State, yet there are many per-
sons in that State who entertain a different opinion—and
there are many who have their doubts upon the subicct-
to silence which doubts, and prevent tl*e depression (tf the
price of those lands, which those different opinions and
doubts arc calculated to produce, when they shaft be
brought into market, the Representatives from that State
urge, that this bill ought to pass: that it can do no ham,
and may do much good: that if the United States had
no title to the lands, the passage of the bill would be
harmless: if she had a title, that title, by the passage of
the bill, would be vested where aH acknowledged it ought
to be. Mr. Ki said he liad before remarked, that the Se-
nate could not act upon that dubious aspect of the ques-
tion. To do so would argue an incompetence in the Se-
nate to its duties, which would and ought to derogate
much from its character. But, said Mr. K. the State of
Ohio ".iiiows her own rights—let her escrt them, lie dis-
liked to sec a State apply to the General Government, to
be instructed in her rights, or to be advised as to the man-
ner in which she should exercise tftetft. He disliked tire
precedent. The Judiciary Department of the United
States had, in some instances, as he believed, encroached
upon the rights of the States. He was unwilling to see
the Congress invited to do the like. He disliked to see the
States even willing to see their rights narrowed from any
quarter—Sill less could he consent to assist them, at then-
own solicitation, to diminish their rights. He considered
the excellence of the division of this country into States,
to consist, mainly, in the capacity of the States to compre-
hend their rights, and exert their energies in the protec-
tion of their citizens, and irt the promotion of their pros-
perity and happiness—a capacity which a single Govern-
ment, comprehending their Territory, could not possess,
or exercise so beneficially to the citizens, or favorably to
their liberties, as the States can. He believed that the best
l ights and interests of the citizens depended upon the
maintenance, and exercise, by the States, of all their le-
gitimate rights; He believed that this bill tended to nar-
row the rights of the State of Ohio, and that its- passage
would form a dangerous precedent, in relation to the other
States-—and therefore, he repeated, that he must vote
against it. He felt reluctant to contravene the wishes of
his friends from that State. But he consoled himself, that
no injury would be inflicted upon that State, by the re-
jection of the bill: for it was evident that the lands might
be sold by the State, with the consent of the townships,
which were the cestuvque trusts. They were competent
to give their assent, and the State was competent to act as
trustee, A more competent or fit trustee than a sovereign
State, to manage the interests of her citizens, could not
well be thought of.
Mr. BERRIEN thought there were two material objec-
tions to passing the bill; in the first place, it was an excess
of legislation which ought always to be avoided; and, in
the second place, the Legislature of the Union was not
the proper tribunal before which doubts of this kind ought
to come. The Courts of the Union were the proper tri-
bunals to decide such questions. Mr. B. spoke a short time
in sustaining these objections to the passage of the bill.
The above embraces the substance of the discussion,
which, in replies and rejoinders, continued some time. In
the end,
On the motion of Mr. CHANDLER, (who thought the
riglit of the United States to interfere ought to be ascer-
tained before the bill passed,) the bill was laid on the
table.
Thvksh.vv, Jascary 12, 1826.
PREVENTION OF DESERTION.
The Senate then proceeded, as in Cocnmittec ©f the
Whole, to consider the following bill, "to prevent deser-
tion from the army and for other purposes."
" Be it enacted, &c. That, from and after the first day of
June next, there shall be retained from the monthly pay,
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Gales, Joseph, 1761-1841. Register of Debates in Congress, Comprising the Leading Debates and Incidents of the First Session of the Nineteenth Congress, book, 1826; Washington D.C.. (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc30753/m1/22/: accessed April 25, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, UNT Digital Library, https://digital.library.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.