[Ania Dorfmann] I was so impressed and
so moved to see the Maestro alive,
close that I was absolutely numb.
Maestro thought probably that I was
the biggest idiot in the world because I
couldn't answer intelligibly his questions,
and I think at the end he stopped asking
me because he saw that I can't talk.
[Don Gillis] The impression of Maestro Arturo Toscanini,
the man instead of the God on the podium.
[Ania Dorfmann] That's right. It's such a
different thing to know
a great man or to be in
his presence or to hear
from a distance like everybody else.
It was one of the most impressive moments of
my life to have met Maestro
and I couldn't believe that I shook hands.
[Don Gillis] This was some ways in the 1930s, I imagine.
[Ania Dorfmann] 1930s, yes.
[Don Gillis] Then we jump 10 or 15 years
and we jump from Europe to America,
and you then appeared with Maestro.
[Ania Dorfmann] That's right.
[Don Gillis] As a soloist, I think there were
three piano concertos that you did with Maestro.
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, I can't call them exactly three,
one concerto but the rest was the first time.
It was the coral fantasy with curves.
The second time was the Triple Concerto,
that was for the centennial of the
New York Philharmonic.
I played that, it's for piano, violin, and cello.
[Don Gillis] The Beethoven Triple Concerto, yes.
[Ania Dorfmann] Yes.
[Don Gillis] With the Triple Concertos or Pirastro.
[Ania Dorfmann] And Joseph Schuster.
[Don Gillis] Then?
[Ania Dorfmann] Then in 1944, there was
a baton festival in NBC,
and then I play the C Major Beethoven.
[Don Gillis] You later recorded that.
[Ania Dorfmann] Yes, in 1945,
and I remember the date was on the 9th of August.
It was the hottest day, I think,
I remember and Maestro wasn't
concerned at all about himself but he thought,
is it too hot for you to repeat again?
Of course, we had to repeat it because in
those days there was no tape, it was on disk.
[Don Gillis] The disk had to be right from
beginning to end.
[Ania Dorfmann] Yes, we had stops because so much
could get in on the disk but we went
from one end to the other
once and the second time and Maestro was
concerned about me if it
wasn't too hot for me to repeat the second time.
[Don Gillis] Ania, of these three performances,
the one that seems to glow most richly in
your memory is the Beethoven C major, is wonderful.
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, it's very difficult to say,
because every time you played with Maestro it was
a glowing experience and
of great anxiety in spite of his kindness to the solace.
[Don Gillis] Why anxiety?
[Ania Dorfmann] Because you wanted to do so well.
You were working towards a goal
which was almost unattainable.
[Don Gillis] Now, the Beethoven C major
you did in Studio 8H.
[Ania Dorfmann] We played in Studio 8H,
but we recorded in Carnegie Hall.
[Don Gillis] You remember particular things about the day?
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, I played it with
the Maestro before, so of course,
I knew what he wanted and we rehearsed it so much.
But as I say,
it was always hard to play with
the Maestro only in the sense of wanting to do
so well and this was difficult
because there was no question about
making wrong notes because of not
being on a tape and just doing the right thing.
[Don Gillis] Well, this hot August, as you're talking,
you're talking as a musician,
thinking of the musical experience and I'm
thinking of the technical problem on you.
This is before the days of taping of the LP record,
so you had to play whatever it was on one side.
[Ania Dorfmann] Absolutely. There was no cutting, splicing,
adding, you had just to play
as the Maestro and yourself wanted and that was that.
When you stopped after 3 1/2 or four minutes,
whatever we decided of course before we stopped.
We stopped, and then the little red lamp
came back and you had to start.
I hate, by the way, this little red lamp, I hate.
We had to start exactly at
the same tempo and the same mood where we stopped.
That, of course, is always more
difficult than what we do now.
[Don Gillis] Now Maestro, besides his giant musicianship,
had the technical skill
to regather his forces and to recharge your forces.
[Ania Dorfmann] Absolutely. He always was i
n the same frame of mind,
and the same tempo always occurred after each stop.
[Don Gillis] Requires enormous precision and control.
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, that Maestro had to a point like
nobody else has, extraordinary.
[Don Gillis] How about the dialogue in the Beethoven,
in this concerto between the orchestra and the piano?
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, Maestro told me, he said,
he hears it like the first Beethoven symphony.
In that spirit that
he heard the first Beethoven concerto,
which was a great help to me, of course.
[Don Gillis] As an overall point of view.
[Ania Dorfmann] As the overall point of view,
and I think that there
is something of it in the concerto. This spirit.
[Don Gillis] This enthusiasm, this spirit, this joy.
[Ania Dorfmann] That's right. Because Maestro
never was static for one minute.
It was always moving.
The music never was static, it always moved.
[Don Gillis] As we hear this concerto
in this broadcast tonight, Ania,
which you performed two decades ago,
we realized that this flow,
this sense of rush of passionate flow.
[Ania Dorfmann] That we owe to the Maestro.
[Don Gillis] That we owe what?
[Ania Dorfmann] To the Maestro,
because he had the highest degree,
and I have learned that from him for
the future never to be static.
If it's a slow movement or fast movement,
it has always to move, which makes music.
If you become static,
the audience wanders away from you.
[Don Gillis] As you are giving us this recollection
of Maestro,
I have a little chill of recollection of
an identical point that
was made by the young conductor Herbert Grossman.
[Ania Dorfmann] He is a very good conductor.
[Don Gillis] Very good and sat with
Maestro one day at lunch in his home in Italy,
in Maestro's home in Italy.
There was silence for about 10 minutes,
as you may know,
sometimes falls on the table
and Maestro was lost in thoughts.
[Ania Dorfmann] Everybody was scared to talk to him.
[Don Gillis] As you that first time in the
heart of his home.
Herbert didn't know where
Maestro's thoughts were and suddenly from nowhere,
Maestro turn to young Grossman and said,
never stop the beat.
[Ania Dorfmann] That's right.
[Don Gillis] The line must continue.
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, that's one of the most important
things
in music, the line.
[Don Gillis] Now coming back to your Beethoven concerto,
this is one of your feelings
that is in though, in that performance.
[Ania Dorfmann] The pulsation, the movement in it.
It's alive and that's very important.
[Don Gillis] Looking back now on these musical experiences
with Maestro Toscanini,
Ania, how would you,
If I might say, sum up?
How would you express it?
[Ania Dorfmann] Well, I would say that he was
different in that respect from other musicians,
that it was never just another concert for the Maestro.
It was a new experience,
a new adventure. Each one.
I would say he was like a high priest,
getting ready for the great sermon.
Great message and when he was walking out,
the audience always felt it.
He was serving the music
interpreted and was so humbled before it.
I really think that the audiences
through the world are the
same and they feel the sincerity of it.
[Don Gillis] Thank you, Ania. Our interview guest
has been the renowned concert pianist Ania Dorfmann.
Our concert will continue following
a 10-second pause for station identification.