1995 Army Team Lead Desk Material - DoD Investigative Hearing Transcript, June 14, 1995 Page: 15 of 111
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Base Realignment & Closure
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1 BRAC process. You know, you take off things, you put them
2 back on, you realign, you realign again, you subtract, you
3 add to. I m not finding fault with that.
4 Now, there may be some of that after this, and the
5 question has occurred to us, without reaching out beyond what
6 you've done, we are thinking we need to address how you make
7 changes in BRAC over the next six years. If you want to come
a to us, say, "We have kind of looked at this again, and this
9 needs a little bit more tuning up."
to So do you think that's something we -- the reason I
1I ask all these things, Senator Thurmond has asked us to come
12 in about the middle of July when the dust has at least
13 partially settled if we can get back into town, and we'll
14 wear bulletproof vests and come in in the dead of night like
15 Abraham Lincoln did after the election that time over 100
16 years ago. But if we do that, is that a thing we should be
17 looking at?
18 GENERAL SULLIVAN: In my opinion, it is. I think
19 the leaders of these organizations need the flexibility to
20 manage their assets so that they can hold these organizations
21 together. And I can't predict - I don't think anybody can
22 predict what's going to happen here. And I think there has" V
'VPage 63
1 at it and making their best cases. Now, challenges are
2 taking place before the commissions right now at the
3 administrative level. I have no doubt this is going into
4 courts and so forth. I'm a lawyer. That's how I make my
5 living in my other life.
6 But you fellows are here saying that you stake your
7 reputations on the fact that what you have now, the permits
8 you have now satisfy the Army regarding this matter.
9 SECRETARY WEST: To the extent we know and with the
10 advice we have, which yes, as you pointed out, does include
11 our counsel.
12 CHAIRMAN DIXON: Well, I want to tell you
13 something. We're going to start voting next Thursday, the
14 22nd day of June. AndI ask you both, General Sullivan and
15 Secretary West -- let's see; you're going to leave here six
16 days from now -- but I would ask you all to let us know if
17 there's any changes in this. Because as far as the Chair's
18 concerned, I indicate not at all how we'll vote. There may
19 even be divisions here.
20 But the point is, I act on the assumption you're
21 saying you're satisfied about the permits on whatever this
22 chairman finally will do.9
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22June 14, 1995
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SECRETARY WEST: And that's a correct assumption,sir.
CHAIRMAN DIXON: Now, finally I want to make this
clear in my own mind. There's a lot of discussion here. All
my colleagues have asked these questions. These questions
are in our mind. You have five depots out there and we all
know we're looking at good stuff now. I've said from the
beginning, "Hey, you have an '88 round; you have a '91 round;
you have a '93 round."
I played baseball and sports when I was a kid --
not so good -- but I remember, you had a bunch of cuts. By
the time you got the cuts finished, you had what you thought
was your team left. And this is the fourth cut. All this
stuffs good. Most of these places have had awards of
excellence and all kinds of tnbutes to the fine work they
do, right?
GENERAL SULLIVAN: Right.
CHAIRMAN DIXON: Now, you've got five depots out
there, and you're telling us with the excess capacity you've
got, you can live with cutting out two and having three left.
SECRETARY WEST: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DIXON: And you are saying to us thatPage 65
1 that's better than downsizing, so far as the Army is
2 concerned, without any judgement of what some other service
3 may do?
4 SECRETARY WEST: Yes, sir. That is exactly what
5 we're saying.
6 CHAIRMAN DIXON: You say you save money by closing
7 and not downsizing.
a SECRETARY WEST: Yes, sir.
9 CHAIRMAN 1DIXON: You've looked at downsizing?
t0 SECRETARY VEST: By "downsizing," you mean simply
11 shrinking the particular five to a smaller size?
12 CHAIRMAN DIXON: Get them smaller and in place.
13 SECRETARY WEST: We have, and we have concluded
14 that that is not the way to go and that those who may be
15 going that way are not making as good judgements as we are.
16 (Lau hter.)
17 CHAIRMAN DIXON: Well, that's a stronger response
is -- I'm a luckier lawyer than I thought I would be on that
19 one.
20 (Laughter.)
21 CHAIRMAN Dd[XON: The Chair recognizes Commissioner
22 Davis.Page 66
1 COMMISSIONER DAVIS: From the United States Air
2 Force.
3 (Laughter.)
4 SECRETARY WEST: Who arc, incidentally, making line
5 judgements.
6 COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Formerly of the Air Force.
7 First, I would like to join my colleagues up here in wishing
8 General Sullivan well. And we hope that he doesn't go away.
9 that he provides his advice and counsel for years to come.
to GENERAL SULLIVAN: Thanks.
II COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Mr. Secretary, I'm going to
12 have to beg your indulgence. You know it s a wonderful
13 thing when -- the commissioners are really worried that
14 either agreeing with you or not agreeing with you would do
15 severe damage to your capability. And I recognize the job
16 General Sullivan and you have done in trying to map this
17 strategy out.
18 1 also recognize that your budget flex is not very
19 high and that if you don't get the savings, you probably
20 jeopardize your readiness and your modernization accounts,
21 which is really very critical. By the same token, as you can
22 see, we're not up here to challenge the U.S. Army on theirDivrsfid Rpotig ervce, nc. (22)29..229Pae.1,.Pge6
Page 62
1 to be some mechanism so we can move things around.
2 1 think Commissioner Montoya's question is
3 certainly -- look, we're paying attention to that. Now, we
4 don't want to slavishly hold to preconceived plans or
5 preconceived notions if it doesn't seem correct. And locking
6 us in, fencing us in, will be dysfunctional. Could be.
7 CHAIRMAN DIXON: And Secretary, you're nodding
a "yes." If you have anything you want to -
9 SECRETARY WEST: No. On a different matter, your
10 comment about the Chief not having a dog in this fight, of
11 course, we know how he feels about the Army. He always will
12 have a dog in this fight.
13 CHAIRMAN DIXON: Oh, I understand that. Well, we
14 respect and love him for it. Now, I'm going to ask two more
15 questions. They're highly repetitious. But, you know by
16 now, let's all be adults about this. We know what the ho0
17 spots are around here. And everybody knows that some things
is are not going to be a lot of trouble, and other things are
19 highly controversial. Let's face that.
20 Now, the fight between Alabama and Missouri has
21 gotten into the national magazines and everything else. And
22 it's a pretty good fight, and I respect both sides for goingi
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United States. Defense Base Closure and Realignment Commission. 1995 Army Team Lead Desk Material - DoD Investigative Hearing Transcript, June 14, 1995, legal document, February 17, 2006; (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc25516/m1/15/: accessed April 25, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, UNT Digital Library, https://digital.library.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.