All right. Well, today is August 3rd, 2023. I'm
Justin Lemons with UNT Libraries Special Collections,
interviewing Sam Ivey, also with UNT Special
Collections, for the UNT Libraries ARL
Celebration Oral History Project.
Welcome, Sam, and thank you for sharing your
story today.
Thank you.
Let's begin with how you began your library
career. Can you describe that for us?
Well, I applied for a job as a student
assistant when I came up here to pursue an art
degree at the University of North Texas.
and I applied on the first floor those no
surprise reorganization going on at
that time and I applied at the circulation desk
to stacks management
position and I waited a couple of weeks I
applied a couple of other places
around town I didn't hear anything I had
previous experience at the Midland
County Public Library and I got the call
because I had a recommendation letter
from my previous job and I think they were
surprised to see that and I was
called in for an interview and I guess I
interviewed well enough for a student
assistant job that they decided that they were
going to hire me. My first boss was Tracy
Sullivan, who worked here, 1993.
And I don't remember my original hire date, but
it was, it was that January. I was not in
Denton, but probably about two weeks.
And I had my first library job because I, you
know, I was done pretty well at the other library.
I worked at Midland County Public Library, but
that's basically how it started.
And I worked for two and a half years in stacks management.
And then I had to change student assistant jobs
because at that point I had already worked
probably about, by the two and a half year
mark, I had probably worked almost four years
shelving books, if you include my previous experience.
and that even at that young age that starts to
starts to wear down your body
a little bit and I was having trouble with my
knees so I moved on to another
student assistant position after that and
worked for probably about another
semester with Bill Reynolds who was just a
blast to work with and just funny and
everything else but after that I found out
there was a full-time job here in
the libraries through Edward Wojcicki and I
applied to Circulation and
because of my previous experience doing
multiple things as a stacks management
student assistant and basically also being the
courier student assistant
doing what Sean Siebel does now I did that
right around 95 and then then I was
hired in full-time as a library assistant one.
Wow. In December of 95. Okay so that's
how you got your start here. That's how I got
my start. What specifically or was there
anything specifically that interested you in
pursuing work in a
library or librarianship? Well I think it was
more due to that's
where I had my experience and I I guess I've
done well enough in libraries over
the years or certainly back then you know I
people would see me out and about
they saw me working and I guess they thought oh
that Bozo's doing a pretty
good job. I think at one point, Gene Forrest
had threatened to kidnap me, put me in
photocopy, when I was working under Tracy. But
that was a long time ago. And if you're a new
worker, I mean, you're trying to impress people
because you want that job. And it's, you know,
maybe your first or second job. I mean, you
should always do well in the beginning on any
job. But, I mean,
think that's it's more because that's where my
experience was and it was a
good job to have while I was in school and I
didn't really know what I wanted
to do after that and I stayed in libraries
because you know circulation
work at that time it was fairly easygoing
non-stressful I could go home
and always work on art I could always do my you
know work for school and that's
sort of the nature of things I mean you get a
desk job in circulation and the
surprising part there is you know working on a
desk yeah you're working
full-time, but when I was working as a shelver
I really kind of feel like I was
a lot more active in the physical sense and
people will say you know that's
that's physical labor and it's it's kind of
it's beneath a lot of things but you
know those people back then that were putting
books away I mean it was not
unheard of during that time where they would
sort book trucks in advance it got
so busy and during busy parts of the semester
that would be ten full book
trucks of books waiting for students to shelve
those now if you were good you
could shelve one of those in 20 minutes most
people were not that good too good
I knew if they could do it that fast. And they
were, they were maniacs. They were good guys.
One of them even went on to work in circulation
and he did equally good work.
He was just an efficient, you know, diligent
worker, like yourself. And, you know, but
shelving a book truck, I mean, like that it
usually would take anywhere from around 30
minutes to an hour.
30 minutes is still pretty quick.
Bound periodicals, those are pretty
straightforward, but even then, you know.
I mean, with all the books that have gone out
of this place, I mean, it's hard to kind of imagine.
At one time, you know, this building was filled
with books, and that was someone's
responsibility to do that.
Those were the shelvers and the stacks manager
in the library, and eventually I was stacks
manager several years after that.
and I oversaw
at busy times of the year
16 student assistants Wow
I think my most got up to 11
in the music library
16 is a lot
It's a lot to keep track of
Especially when you can't always have your eyes
on them Yeah
They have to sign in
and if the sign in sheets don't match up
they're probably up to something
So anyway
um well uh can you describe for us right now in
what capacity you currently work for the libraries
I work as processing coordinator at the rcl
formerly library Annex and
And I guess how that happened is through
Morgan, I came in archives in 2012 and that was a
transition from the Discovery Park.
History and processing, I kind of, I use my
prior experience with organizational levels in
the library.
Some of it even goes back to stacks management.
I mean, that stuff is just ingrained at this
point, and I just, I do it automatically.
And I guess some of that experience included my
work from circulation.
I went on from being a stacks manager and I
became Circulation Supervisor when it was the
SciTech Library for 10 years and well it was
called SciTech Library before I was there but
it's called Sycamore Hall now and yeah I was
over there for a good chunk of time before I
ended up in archives.
But I imagine all of that prior library
experience has probably helped me to some
degree in doing what I do now.
I'm actually a bit surprised when I think about
all of that that I used to do and how I ended
up here.
But, I mean, the job now as it is, is I oversee
processing on manuscripts, collections.
I oversee right now one student assistant and
one full-time person and should be another
person coming in soon.
Well, I mean, we'll see how that plays out.
But, yeah, I mean, I've done that now for 2023 now.
So, yeah, it's been 10 years that I've been
doing that, and I processed myself.
I don't know how many collections.
I'll just say a lot.
I mean, it's definitely over 20.
It might be 40 or 50 at this point.
I don't know.
That's a lot.
But, I mean, there are plenty of finding aids
out there that have my name on it.
And if it's not me, then the work that I
recommend people do on finding aids, you will
probably recognize the organizational structure
from some of my own, which it doesn't always
translate over as well when it goes to somebody else.
But, I mean, it will look, you know, something
like, you know, how I would do things.
There have only really been just a few people
that have kind of managed to stick with that,
you know, my particular format.
But I imagine I've gotten to this place where
I've done enough of these collections now that
I guess somebody thought that I should possibly
be overseeing at least, you know, how some of
these are done. Right.
Because I consistently, I feel like I've done
my job as a processing archivist, which is to
arrange the collection, get the finding aid up.
And once the collection is usable, if people
are doing reference work on the collection, if
they're able to find what they're looking for,
then I've done my job.
Absolutely. Okay.
Well, so we've talked a little bit about how
your role has changed over time.
you've kind of described how you started in
stacks management and working at the CERC desk
and you've talked about your time as a
processing archivist and the processing coordinator
what did you do in between in that in-between
period when you were can you describe what you
did at sycamore hall a little bit more at
sycamore hall oh that could be a long story
so I was only stacks manager in willis for
about a year um I love that job because it was
my first
time being manager and uh I've really come to
enjoy that I mean it's not that I want to tell
people what to do uh because I don't really
that's not that's not you it's it's more of a
thing where you you're you're offered another I
guess pay rate and maybe more responsibilities
more responsibility and I I think there's
probably maybe something in you that you think
well you know I I had this experience and I did
pretty well with that experience at this point
so let's see how I do here and I think as
stacks manager I probably could have stayed on
for another year or two because I did enjoy
that job but you know the pay rates around here even
back then were always kind of something it's
like well I like this but I could actually use
probably a little more money right and that's
when you know I applied for a
stacks manager in Willis but from that point at
Sycamore Hall when it was
SciTech so I take library that opening came up
about a you know year after I
I was stack manager at Willis, and I was
encouraged to apply for that.
Who encouraged you?
Well, there were a couple of office staff back
then. I mean, Gary Sanders, who was a great
boss, and you know,
Marianne in circulation at that time you know
she thought well even though you've already you've
done this you know you you kind of you're at
the point now where you've done so much
in stacks management by this point you're the
supervisor and
why not go for something else can my you know I
applied for that I mean
I mean, I was, surprisingly, I mean Gary
thought I could do it, so it was open.
There were some other people applying, but I
got that job as the circulation manager at
SciTech Library.
And that was a fun job for about 10 years, but
it was getting to a point near the end where I
think I had probably gone as far as I could go.
when I could I knew that but there were a lot
of things that happened they were
but there were a lot of good people that passed
through there I'll mention some
of them Jean Bilney who was just hysterical he
I just he was an old
curmudgeon and he always had some off-handed
remark it didn't always go
well with everybody but we were over there and
you know we loved that guy he
He was a hoot. He was always getting into some
kind of trouble over something, but he was part
of SciTech, and he stayed over there until
about 2008 when he retired, but his story is a
really long story. I won't go into it, but he
was a pretty interesting fellow.
But, you know, there are other people who
worked over there. Solomon Salafors, who was
here for a while. He was a Stax Management
Student Assistant that I hired on over there.
And he was there for about a year before he
moved on to other positions in the library. I'm
surprised I'm mentioning him.
Martin Wallace was over there, Madonna
Harrison, who was a really nice lady and she
moved back to Arlington because her husband had
another job that came up and he was over at
Texas Women's University and they moved there.
And Martin, he moved on to Discovery Park.
Eventually he had Sean Seymour's old position there.
And he eventually moved on, moved out of here,
became a librarian, went to Maine.
But Brian Hurt was a good friend of mine that
came up after that.
I've known him for 20 years now.
He was hired on in 2002.
I started that job over there in 2001 okay
after Pam Johnson Johnson left and
it's a fun job for you know a number of years
but you know times changed I think
probably around somewhere around 2007 2008 when
they moved the library science
school out of there and they moved it to
Discovery Park because the UNT
the administration, with them having to rebuild
Kerr Hall or tear Kerr Hall down, they had
to move those international offices over to the
information services building.
So that's what happened and that all started,
that caused a ricochet effect because all
of those librarians that were over there on the
second floor, they all had to be moved
out and went over to Willis. That was around, I
think, 2007, and some of the books. So we were
responsible for
moving some of those books that went to
Discovery Park, and that was also a fun time.
So how long did you work at Discovery Park for?
I didn't get to Discovery Park until much later
after that.
Oh, okay.
I was, you know, like I said, you know, any
good thing like that, you know, eventually it's
going to kind of, you know, it's going to reach
a point where you just really can't go any further.
and I kind of knew that in the position that I
should think about doing something else.
So, when the management changed over there,
when Dr. Halbert came in here in 2010,
there were major changes that came through
library-wide, him and Kathy, and SciTech
changed at that point.
I had a new boss over there and super nice lady
actually, Erin O'Toole, but as luck would have
it, you know, I think our styles just, you
know, we just didn't quite do things the same way.
And I ended up moving because of, you know, all
of the changes. It was really kind of
overwhelming and I think even for a lot of
people around that time, anyone that's been
here for a while and in that place, it was like
a second home to me.
So, yeah, all these changes coming in, you
know, these dynamics between, you know, my
co-workers were beginning to shift and change,
because I was also, you know, I went from being
the first person in charge over there in my
unit to being the second person.
And, you know, sometimes when that happens, it,
you know, it'll, you'll, it's, you know, what
do you call it? It's like a cascading effect or whatever.
and so I would I was I requested to be moved
and so I was moved and that's when
I came under suit parks okay what you're about
was that that was 2011 2011 okay
and Discovery Park was great there was plenty
of work to do out there of course
You know, for me it was like starting a new
job, so I kind of went back into stacks
management mode and just started working as
efficiently as I could, just finding things
that needed to be done.
And of course, you know, there were a number of
different things that needed to be done.
And overall, I think probably what I did was I
got that place, I didn't know it at the time,
but I got things structured and organized in a
way where the reference staff could kind of
learn how to do some circulation stuff.
And where, you know, Amanda could, you know,
make some changes over there as well.
I don't want to give myself that much credit,
but looking back now, all of the organizational work,
I put information out there where there wasn't
any information and how to do things.
And essentially, I brought things up to, I
think, a standard where eventually we were
moved, you know, me and Amanda, we were moved
up here to Archives.
The librarian that was out there, she had kind
of a different perspective on how she wanted to
run Discovery Park.
And I think she did much better with the people
that came in under her after that because there
were a number of things at that time that, you
know, if you were a certain kind of
personality, it wasn't always going to, you
know, wasn't always going to go well with, you
know, everybody out there. Right.
And I think, you know, looking back on that, I
mean, there were a lot of different kind of
personalities out there at Discovery Park.
And, you know, most of the time we got along
pretty well.
And I don't think there was anybody out there
that I just disliked.
I liked everybody out there.
But, once again, we were a big organization
going through changes.
and I didn't know it at the time, but there
were big plans for archives and I think
probably seeing some of the work I did at
Discovery Park
and seeing that, you know, I could implement my
work ethic as it is in such a way that I was
fairly productive,
I think maybe it was seeing that I might be
more beneficial to Archive and that's how we
got up here. We were just moved up here.
Now, was this around the time that Archives and
Rare Books were merged together?
That was after that.
It was still called Archives and Rare Books,
and they weren't quite together.
But then by the time me and Amanda came over
here, it was all one unit.
Archives was still over at the other side.
I remember actually talking to Morgan before it
was even all integrated.
So, when we came over here, it was where it is
now, and then after that, after I think about
two or three years, maybe about two years, I
recall, maybe around 2014,
They changed the name to just Special
Collections, and I might not be specific on the
year with that, but it was somewhere around
that time that that change was made.
Oh, right.
but uh yeah it was I mean it was still fairly
separate we were told that we'd be coming up
there and then once we were up here we're both
combined like just right before so anyway that's
how I ended up here well um shifting from your
your history into the libraries uh well I guess
this is historical, but what would you say are
some of your most memorable
experiences that you've had working in the
library? Well, there are plenty of those.
I mean, you'll probably have some bad memories
too. I mean, that just kind of goes without saying.
Bad memories are memorable as well. Yeah, but
you probably want to, you know, you want to
think about probably some of the good memories
yeah so it is a celebration
some of the best times I had were working in
circulation period and
working over at SciTech working in circulation
I mean the people there were
just always great they were always new faces
with student assistants I I
I enjoyed working and helping people at the
desk and I feel like I was pretty good at it
and it wasn't something that I was looking
forward to because I think by nature I'm
probably little introverted and helping people
at the front desk.
I soon discovered that I craved that, so
clearly I'm not that much of an introvert.
If you get too many people coming up at the
desk, sometimes that can be overwhelming,
and then you have to figure out who's helping who.
But I really enjoyed the camaraderie with all
of those people that I knew in circulation back then.
And in fact, I mean, I'm still friends with,
you know, a number of those people.
I mentioned, you know, a few of them when I was
hired in, you know, Edward Oyginski, Mary Ann
was back in circulation at that time.
My friend David Palmer, Chris Cunningham.
I'm trying to remember some others.
those are the names that that do stick Mitch
Lowther was another guy he was
tax manager after Tracy and he was my boss for
a little while he was a he was
a funny man he went on to land management and
then he moved back out to
Abilene he's also a friend of Edwards oh yeah
okay but it was just a blast back
And Lara Varcoe, she was another one who was,
you know, she was a funny, funny person.
And we were always working, but, I mean, when
you have camaraderie like that, I mean, it
helps you to think of work as something else.
and you you spend so much time away from your
family full-time job that a lot of times the
people you see daily at work I mean sometimes
they become like you know your second family almost
yeah absolutely and uh even though we you know
we have to watch about
Friendships here at work, I mean, that happens.
I mean, and I've had a number of friends, you
know, in the libraries over the years.
I mean, if you're not going to make friends at
work, I mean, it's kind of silly because none
of us are robots, but yeah, I mean, I would
have to say work in circulation.
And then also the Scitech days with Brian Hurt,
Jennifer Jackson, John Jenkins, Yvette
Elizondo, those were all good times, and even
old Gene Bilney, who was just, you know, he
didn't mean to be funny, but he was a lot of times.
Yeah, those are some of my good memories of
Circulation and we used to have more parties
back then.
They would celebrate everyone's birthday every
month and it's something we just don't do a
whole lot of now in this organization.
But I think, you know, as work oriented as Gary
Sanders was, I mean, he was, you know, he was
definitely a work comrade for sure.
I mean, he liked working with a lot of those
people, I could tell.
and those parties
I mean he would always
he would bring his tortilla rolls
the worst chipmunk
she was also another one
she's not with us anymore
but she would make her
Snickers cake which everybody just
they just loved that
sounds pretty good
it was some kind of dip
that she made but those parties
I remember those
you wouldn't often get a chance
to really
have extended conversations
with your co-workers
but those parties do it's
with the jobs
like they are for staff
some of them low paying
you get to be around
some pretty
amazing people
so I would say
the memories I have
or the
different people
of the friendships I've had in libraries over
the years and people say well all of your friends
they look like you know from the library well I
mean that's where you know I kind of I've kind
of ended up spending most of my time even
though you know I'm an art person uh you know that's
kind of where my experience of people is uh
some libraries well what parts of your job
um your current job do you find to be the most
personally rewarding
uh I I think probably the most personally
rewarding parts of
The job I have now, I feel good when I'm able
to finish a collection and I've got a finding
aid and I know I've done the best that I can
within that particular scenario and that people
can use that collection and find things.
I, you know, again, I also, I enjoy working
with the people I work with, the RCL, and I
enjoy working with those people, the Annex, um,
that's always a huge part of work.
And you can get into situations here where if
you don't have the right workplace chemistry
with the people that you are managing or you
work with, it can cause a lot of problems.
and the funny part of that is when we do a lot
of our hiring it doesn't say
are you a nice person it never says anything
like that are you friendly a lot of these
things they
kind of they fall outside of the workplace
requirements and that should be one of the
top requirements that this person is you know
going to be somebody that will play
well with others and there are times when that
doesn't necessarily happen and
sometimes people are hired in and then they
change or you know they're hired
for other reasons and you know I kind of I
really kind of wonder about that you
know the experience that people have coming
into a job yes that matters but
how you treat other people I mean that's also
equally as important so absolutely
well is there anything that you find
particularly unique about the UNT
libraries that kind of sets it apart from other
academic libraries well I haven't been in too many
other academic libraries it's mainly been this
one I I guess I've enjoyed it enough
where I've stayed here or maybe I just like
constancy and uh since I've
worked here as a student uh it's been a pretty
good place to work
Um, the, you know, the jobs I've had, for the
most part, have not been extremely high stress,
although there have been times that have really
kind of, you know, there have been moments
where it's sort of pushed my stress thresholds
at different points.
And, you know, certainly when there are big,
big reorganizations happening, that's always
stressful to a lot of people.
But, I mean.
Well, this one that we've just gone through has
been pretty stressful, our move from the annex to.
It has been on a lot of levels.
I know that, I know you've had probably more to
deal with, much more to deal with than a lot of us.
but we'll see this may help to put some things
in perspective it's not the worst thing I've been
through here by far I mean I would say overall
I mean it's not bad I mean there's some things
there that I feel like yeah this information
should have been put out there and not withheld
from us so that we you know for better plan for
whatever it is but you know I
will say for the most part yeah I mean overall
it's got pretty smoothly yeah I
think so but UNT yeah is this is a good place I
mean I yeah I appreciate you
know that that they wanted to keep me here for
as long as they have or maybe
that's just me being stubborn and I just you
know if if something is not
necessarily a bad thing then it's probably
maybe a pretty good thing and
And you could, you know, there are benefits
here. The university health benefits. When you
retire, you know, there's a retirement plan.
I think there are a lot of good things, you
know, going there. Certainly, I think, to have
a job that offers you some sense of security,
When there are other jobs, I mean, take working
as an artist, as an example, you really have to
put yourself out there a lot to maintain that.
But if you're working full-time, it sets up a
cushion where you have this job, so some of the
worries from this other thing are not there.
Maybe you're not doing this other thing as
much, but then I think a big part of
alleviating whether you're going to have money,
a job like this helps with that.
I honestly, I can't tell you how the library
really has played a role in my art other than I
think really kind of offering me, you know,
some sense of security because I could have
gone into teaching if I wanted to do that.
I did some of that years ago but um it's it's
sort of a relief to have you know full-time job
and then what that enables you to do on the
other side is uh you can do any kind of art
that you
want so you have total freedom to choose any
kind of imagery you want to do and if you're
doing things yourself if you you know if you
are associated with the gallery I
mean they might want to have a certain kind of
work all the time so in some
ways I mean this is this has benefited me where
even though I would probably
want to put a lot more hours in on something
that I truly passionate about
My heart, this kind of, this offers me, again,
some kind of security, and yet, you know, for
as many hours I put in, I still have that
freedom, a great range of freedom to do
whatever I want outside of work.
So, I guess that's why I've, you know, stayed
here for so long and probably why I would say,
yeah, I mean, working for the state, there are
benefits, but I've liked this system, I guess,
ever since I started.
I remember walking into Willis during the
reorganization that year in 1993 and thinking,
wow, this library is much bigger than mine, but
I never thought, you know, I'd be here this
long, so anyway.
Thirty years now, huh?
Well, I mean, if you're including the student
assistant years and the official full-time
years, it won't say.
I mean, I didn't start full-time until December
of 1995, which is still, I mean, that's 28 years.
Yeah, that's a good long career. Yeah.
Well, what advice would you give students or
recent graduates who are seeking careers in
academic libraries?
I would tell them
keep an open mind for sure
there are plenty of people like me
that have gone on to
work in libraries for whatever reason
security, maybe you like that the job
is low key or maybe you're just interested
in libraries for some reason which
Which, you know, I mean, when I got into
libraries, it was kind of like, oh, I remember
back at grade school, there were all these
books, and I was fascinated with the call
number order.
And you know what?
It wouldn't be my first choice to pick as a
profession, but I kind of liked that for some reason.
And it reminds me of when we would go into the
library and they would tell us these stories.
You know, when I was in elementary school, you
know, librarians would read stories.
I mean, it was that kind of thing.
Well, you know, I can think of a lot worse
places to work than a library. Absolutely.
The building is cool.
So, you know, it's almost never hot inside like
it is outside, and there are a number of
benefits there, and I think what the UNT
Library Sort of represents, it's a wide range
of people that come in, you know, some of them
like me, where they came up here to get an art
degree, which is what I did.
and then continue with art
I think we're on the same page there
there's a place for that here
in the library
and I think what
that allows you being somebody that's creative
is it gives you a space where
how do I say this
without it sounding like it's
not doing what you're supposed to
instead what it is
is you can look for ways to
stay within the rules
but because you're
of a creative mind
you can look at these rules
and somebody else might look at it
and they'll see
oh this is exactly what's written but because
you're creative mind which sometimes a creative
mind it's not you you are somebody that's
embracing the unknown that you're embracing
something that has yet to be invented and you
might be the one that invents it I mean if you
do paintings you invent those paintings all the
time so when you see something you don't see it
in these confining terms that some other people
do and you're able to use your creativity in ways
that allow you to do exactly what that rule
says and hopefully you don't get in trouble
with your
boss but um I I think you know that's to
someone's advantage who's creative in that
sense um but
There are all kinds of people, I think, that
are probably attracted to libraries for
different reasons.
What surprises me are the number of people that
come into libraries,
and it's not really, it's not their first choice.
They come from other backgrounds, and we have
plenty of examples of that here in the libraries.
I mean, we have an art librarian.
We have somebody that specializes probably more
in business, science.
So you sort of need these other subject areas,
if you will, to kind of work for you as an
undergraduate and then maybe those same things
will serve you in a different way when you work
here for a long time or if you decide you're
going to be a librarian.
But, yeah, I think there are a lot of benefits
here, but, you know, I think probably the most
significant thing I think about this place is
it is the people. Sorry.
The people, yeah.
Well, that's certainly what makes this place great.
well I think that
covers all of our questions
thank you for
taking time out of your schedule
to do this
so alright Sam, Ivy
thank you, have a great day
you too, thank you