The Congressional Globe: Containing the Debates and Proceedings of the Third Session Fortieth Congress; Together with an Appendix, Comprising the Laws Passed at that Session Page: 1,534
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1534
THE CONGRESSIONAL GLOBE.
February 24,
salaries, &e.; which was laid on the table, and
ordered to be printed.
sac and fox trust lands.
The SPE AKER also, by unanimous consent,
laid before the House a communication from
the Secretary of the Interior, transmitting, in
answer to House resolution of the 13th instant,
a letter from the Commissioner of the Gene-
ral Land Office, relative to the Sac and Fox
Indian trust lands ; which was referred to the
Committee on Indian Affairs, and ordered to
be printed.
hamburg horticultural exhibition.
The SPEAKER also, by unanimous consent,
laid before the House a communication from
the Commissioner of Agriculture, relative to a
proposed international horticultural exhibition
to be held at Hamburg, September, 1869, rec-
ommending the sending of a commission, &c.;
which was referred to the Committee on Agri-
culture, and ordered to be printed.
leave to print.
Mr. YOUNG asked and obtained leave to
have published in the debates remarks upon
affairs in Georgia. [See Appendix.]
order op business.
Mr. SCOPIELD. Mr. Speaker, the Com-
mittee on Appropriations are very anxious that
the House shall resume this morning as soon
as possible the consideration of the legislative
appropriation bill; and under the instructions
of that committee 1 shall have to insist on the
regular order.
public credit coin contracts.
The SPEAKER. The House resumes, as
the regular order, the consideration of the bill
(H. R. No. 1744) to strengthen the public
credit, and relating to contracts for the payment
of coin. The previous question has been sec-
onded and the main question ordered. The
gentleman from Ohio, [Mr. Schenck,] who
reported the bill from the Committee of Ways
and Means, is entitled to one hour in which to
close the debate.
Mr. SCHENCK. Mr. Speaker, having al-
ready addressed the House on this subject I
am disposed to afford other gentlemen as much
opportunity as possible to express their views.
There is one fact, however, of which I wish to
remind the House. The bill consists of two
sections: one pledging the faith of the Govern-
ment to pay its securities according to what is
understood to be the right interpretation of the
contract, the other relating to the legalization
and enforcement of coin contracts in accord-
ance with the recent decision of the Supreme
Court. In order that gentlemen who are in
favor of one of these sections and opposed to
the other may have an opportunity to express
their views by their votes, I have allowed two
amendments to be offered : one to strike out
the first section, the other to strike out the
second section. These amendments are first
to be voted on, and gentlemen will have an
opportunity to place themselves upon the record
upon each proposition separately, though I
hope both sections will prevail. I now yield
ten minutes to the gentleman from New York,
[Mr. Pruyn. ]
Mr. PRUYN. Mr. Speaker, on a previous
occasion I submitted to the House some re-
marks on the legal-tender act of 1862, and on
the question of our public debt. In the ten
minutes now allotted me it will be impossible
for me to go over that ground again, and for
my general views upon those questions I must
refer to what I have heretofore said. When
the gentleman from Ohio [Mr. Schexck] an-
nounced his intention to speak on this subject,
and said to the House at the beginning of his
remarks that he did not mean to discuss the
question of finance generally, but to confine
himself strictly to the bill before the House, I
supposed we should hear some reason for the
adoption of the first section of the bill. But
to my surprise the gentleman appeared here
with a labored treatise on the finances of the
country, in which he gave statements as to the
crops of the South, cotton and other crops,
and dealt largely in generalities in stating to
the House the object he had in view in the first
section of this act. Let me have his attention
for a moment; and first, I should like to know
what he means by this declaration in the bill:
That the faith of the United States is solemnly
pledged to the payment in coin or its equivalent of
all the interest-bearing obligations of the United
States, except in eases where the law authorizing the
issue of any such obligation has expressly provided
that the same may be paid in lawful money or other
currency than gold and silver.
What does he mean by that? Does he mean
that any existing statute should be changed?
Does he mean to say that the act of 1862—the
legal-tender .act, to which I suppose this is
directed, and the issue of five-twenty bonds
under that act—does he mean to say that that
act does not provide for the payment of five-
twenty bonds in coin, and therefore a statute of
this kind ought to be enacted ?
Mr. SCHENCK. Does the gentleman want
a reply ?
Mr. PRUYN. Not now, but when the gen-
tleman is entitled to the floor.
Mr. SCHENCK. I cannot answer at any
other time, for I have given all my time away.
If the gentleman had done me the honor to
read my speech he would have known I have
replied to every one of his inquiries.
Mr. PRUYN. I listened to it as attentively
as I could when it was delivered.
Mr. SCHENCK. I am sorry that I was not
understood.
Mr. PRUYN. I will confess to my mind
the gentleman did not meet the point at all.
What do we mean by this legislation? Do we
mean anything or nothing? Is it a renewed
declaration of what former statutes provide or
something else ? If the former it is deceptive,
and so I look upon it; but if it is the latter,
then the gentleman undertakes by this law to
create a new obligation on the part of the Gov-
ernment to its creditors, such as the acts under
which the issue of bonds was made did not
create.
Now, sir, this whole question will eventually
be solved in one way. If the gentleman is of
the opinion that in 1882, when the bonds of
1862 will have matured, the Government will
then have resumed specie payment, the whole
question is then solved, for we will then pay
coin, of course. The labor, the industry, and
the toil of the country must work out this prob-
lem ; but if, when that time arrives, we cannot
pay in coin, if we shall not have reached coin
value, then we must pay in new obligations,
and the public creditor must wait until the
country is able to meet its obligations in coin.
We stated to the world that we meant to carry
on the war not upon a specie basis, that we
j were not able to carry on the war with coin,
! but, we intended to draw on posterity and the
labor of the future. We promised gold for
interest, but that the public creditors must
j take the result as to the principal ; that if we
J put down the rebellion, if we succeeded in
! that work, we should soon resume specie pay-
I mcnt, and then, of course, every obligation of
j the Government, would be paid in coin. If we
did not reach that point, then it, would be im-
possible for us to pay in coin, and the public
creditors must take new obligations and wait
until we could reach specie payment. That
was the proposition we made in 1862 to the
public creditors, and under which they took
those bonds.
Now, sir, what has been the cause of our
expenditure since the war closed? We are
more indebted now than we were then, not-
withstanding a system of taxation more heavy
than was ever before imposed upon any peo-
ple living under a republican form of gov-
ernment. Notwithstanding these drafts upon
our resources our debt has been accumulating,
and we are further from specie payment than
three years ago; and so it will be until we
have a sound system of finance on the part of
the Government-—a sound system of taxation
on one side levied on a few articles, and a wise
system of expenditure on the other. Until
we do that we shall have to give the public
creditors renewed promises to pay. On the
other hand a wise, sound, and judicious sys-
tem of finance can bring us to specie payment?
in a very few years. But Congress can do
nothing by legislation of this kind. It is futile,
it is useless, it is deceptive. The first section
of this bill, so far as I can see, means noth-
ing. If it means more than the former statutes
do, then I submit that this is not the way to
meet that question. If this Government is to
come under increased and enlarged obliga-
tions, this whole thing should be fairly and
squarely considered in open debate, giving an
opportunity to all gentlemen to advance their
respective views in regard to it, and we should
determine by conjoint effort in what way we
can best protect the credit and power of the
country.
I regret, Mr. Speaker, that I carmot enlarge
on some points connected with this matter, and
that so important a matter must be disposed
of under such pressing circumstances. But I
felt bound to say this much in regard to it, and
to express the hope that the first section of
this act will be stricken out; and that with re-
gard to the second section, while it may be well
enough to pass it, there is really no need of it.
But I do not know that there is any substantial
objection to it. The decision of the Supreme
Court has fortunately put us right on this sub-
ject, and I do not think that this House can
supplement anything to the Constitution by its
action on this subject. There are other views
in regard to the matter that I would like to
present, but I see my time is exhausted.
Mr.'SCHENCK. I yield ten minutes to the
gentleman from Illinois.
Mr. JUDD. Mr. Speaker, the tax-payers
of this country demand that their burdens be
lessened. They have proved in the past, as
I think they will in the future, that they are
ready to respond to all that the wants and ne-
cessities of the Government actually required
at their hands. And while this feeling of
patriotism prompts them to furnish all the
means necessary to sustain their Government,
they demand an economical disbursement of
those means thus furnished, and that this
Congress determine, so far as possible, in
what manner the burdens of taxation can be
reduced.
It is said, and truly said, that the first
method is by a judicious and proper economy
in the appropriations, the limitations of these
appropriations to such objects and purposes as
are absolutely necessary and essential to the
existence of the Government. I think, Mr.
Speaker, that that career has been entered
upon by this Congress, and the reports of the
Committee on Appropriations show that we
shall, for the next fiscal year, disburse only
about two hundred and ninety million dollars,
about, one hundred and fifty million dollars of
which sum is to be applied to the payment of
interest upon our various forms of indebted-
ness. That is a large reduction upon any
former yearly expenditure. If the same spirit
of economy continues we shall soon reach a
point when no expenditure shall be made be-
yond the necessities I have before referred to.
Such is my confidence in the patriotism and
honesty of the people that I believe no exi-
gencies can arise which involves the good faith
and honor of the country but what they will
respond with their means to the fullest extent
necessary. Show the necessity and the action
will be prompt and effectual.
Having entered upon the career of retrench-
ment we must pursue it to the errd, for the pur-
pose of relieving the tax-payer. And the rejec-
tion of all subsidies and grants looking to private
interest at the expense of the public purse shows
clearly the tone and temper of this House. The
question is now before the nation whether there
is any other mode in which we can be relieved of
aportion of these burdens, and at the sametime
act in perfect good'faith to all of our credit-
ors. Mr. Speaker, we are paying a higher
rate of interest than any nation on the globe
that has equal resources to meet its obliga-
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United States. Congress. The Congressional Globe: Containing the Debates and Proceedings of the Third Session Fortieth Congress; Together with an Appendix, Comprising the Laws Passed at that Session, book, 1869; Washington D.C.. (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc30881/m1/34/: accessed April 24, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, UNT Digital Library, https://digital.library.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.