Register of Debates in Congress, Comprising the Leading Debates and Incidents of the Second Session of the Twentieth Congress Page: 39
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OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.
39
Jan. 14, 1829.]
Distribution of the Revenue.
[SENATE.
man who shall happen to be President when the last dollar ;
shall be paid. Where, said Mr. J., is the man who drew
your Sinking Fund act > Where are those who devised the
plans and levied the money ? And where are those who
have faithfully applied it ■ Sir, said he, this lienor, what-
ever it may be, belongs to all those who, at any time, have
had a part in it. Mr. J. said, there was a tendency here,
as well as among' the People, to ascribc all the merit of
our legislation, and all the wisdom of our measures, to the
Executive, and to concentrate all the honor and glory of
the country upon what is called the administration ; the
effect of which is to degrade the Legislative branch of the
Government.
Mr. J. said, before he concluded he would make a re-
mark in reply to what fell from the gentleman from Mis-
souri, relative to violating the British Sinking Fund, lie
seemed to consider that the present enormous amount of
the British debt as attributable to diversions of the Sink-
ing" Fund. Mr. J. said, the British debt was to be ascribed
to her long and expensive wars. Since the period to
which he alluded, (1732) England had been engaged
nearly half the time in war ; during' which, her expenses
greatly exceeded her income. This excess constitutes
her debt, and the Sinking Fund is inoperative—if the
money is applied, it only extinguishes an old debt, while
they arc creating a new one, or pays off an old loan by
contracting another. During the Revolutionary war, she
increased her debt, in seven .years, one hundred and thirty
millions ; at the beginning' of this century her debt had
increased to four hundred and fifty millions of pounds
sterling, and now it is double that sum, after applying all
her vast revenues. What could both of her Sinking
Funds, amounting* to seven millions a year, do with such
a debt, ho rapidly created ? It is only in time of peace,
when the expenses are reduced below the revenue, that
funds can be. applied effectually to the discharge of the
debt. We have diminished our debt, because we had a
surplus of revenue. But, during a war, no nation, ex-
pects to raise, by taxes, an amount equal to its expenses.
The intervals of peace have been too short, and the accu-
mulation of debt too great and too rapid, to free them
from this load of debt. The true moral of which is, to
teach us to avoid war, as the true cause of her debts.
Mr. BENTON rose, to do what, lie said, lie had never
done before—to quit the debate and engage in an episode,
of which the subject was of no more importance than the
answer to the question whether he himself had a modi-
cum, more or less, of political information on a particular
point. The Senator from Louisiana had undertaken to
correct him, somewhat at length, on a point of history.
Gentlemen who undertook to correct others, should take
care that they themselves were right in the. correction,
and also in stating" the error imputed to the other. 01'
both these rules the Senator from Louisiana had been un-
mindful. lie had erred in attempting to repeat what he,
(Mr. B.) had said of the origin of the British National
Debt. That debt had its origin in the Revolution of 1688,
as we had learnt, when apprentices to the law, in Black-
stone. lie (Mr. B.) had not treated the violation of the
Sinking Fund, by Sir Robert Walpole, as the sole cause
of the frightful amount of the British debt; he treated it
as the cause why the debt was not paid, under the long,
and peaceful, and timid administration of that minister.
Subsequent wars ran it up to what it is—the war for the
Dutch barrier, for the Protestant succession, for the ba-
lance of Europe, the wars of the American and the
French Revolutions. Mr. B. had quoted a piece of history,
to have the benefit of its warning example against the dan-
ger of delay in paying a public debt. Our debt was now
small, and we could pay it in four years; instead of slack-
ening payments, he would accelerate them. lie wooId
consider himself as engaged with a monster, a giant—and,
getting the upper hand of him, and able to destroy him
by a few more blows, instead of staying his hand, and let
the monster go, to recover 3ns strength, and come at him
again, he would redouble his blows, and finish him while
he could. Wc can pa)' our debt in four years. Let us do
it, and astonish the world with the spectacle of a great
nation without a national debt! Such a spectacle woukl
make us more formidable to Europe than the exhibition
of an hundred thousand men under arms, and an hundred
ships of the line at sea. As to a party in the United States
in favor of continuing' the public debt, Mr. B. could not
say there was a political party which could be so charac-
terized ; but he knew there were many in favor of it—
large interests in favor of it; and he had himself heard
a gentleman say, that he could not conceive of a greater
calamity than the payment of the debt. Lord Castlereagh
said the same thing in the British House of Commons,
just before his death.
Mr. JOHNSTON, of Louisiana, said, the gentleman
from Missouri yesterday occupied, for a considerable
time, the attention of the Senate, on the danger of touch-
ing the Sinking Fund, which he attempted to illustrate by
the example of England, where, he said, the debt had in-
creased, in one century, from forty millions to nine hun-
dred millions pounds sterling, by violating the Sinking-
Fund. He read, at some length, from speeches in the
British Parliament, and seemed to attach much importance
to that which he now considers unworthy of my notice.
By the explanation which had just been given, he said he
should find himself in an awkward dilemma, which must
preclude him from noticing what might fall from him in
debate. He deems it unworthy of me, said Mr. J. to re-
ply to any errors of opinion, or of argument, because they
are errors ; and he. could not answer what was sound in
principle, or correct in inference, because the}7 were un-
answerable.
He thought he did not misunderstand the scope of the
argument which the gentleman had used yesterday. He
was discussing a bill to take five millions from the Sinking
Fund. .He read from the Parliamentary debates, on the
same subject, to show the danger of touching the funds
provided for the payment of the public debt. He said
the debt in England had increased, since the time of Sir
Robert Walpole, from less than fifty millions to the enor-
mous and almost incalculable sum of nine hundred millions
pounds sterling ; and he added, emphatically, "in conse-
quence of not attending to the warning voice of her states-
men." lie said, this immcr.se debt, and the evils brought
upon the countiy, arose from the misapplication of the
Sinking Fund. The end of the gentleman's argument
seemed to be, to warn us of the danger, by the example
he cites. Mr. J. said, while he agreed with the gentleman
in the inexpediency of diverting any portion of our funds
to any other purpose, he believed the true moral which
this country shall learn from the example of the British
debt was, to avoid her policy, which led to long expensive
wars ; to cultivate peace, friendship, and commerce, a-
broad ; industry at home ; and a wise and proper econo-
my in the Government. Mr. J. said, lie had not objected
to the debate on this subject; on the contrary, he was
glad to see the propositions discussed, and sent among the
people, and for that reason he had taken part in it; but
he objected to the decision upon any of them now, be-
fore thej* can be understood by the people, and before there
is any necessity for the action of the Government; and,
he therefore said, the passage of these bills was prema-
ture.
Mr. KANE did not rise to discuss the bill. His only ob-
juet was to give the Senator from New Jersey an oppor-
tunity to modify the bill, so as to rendcrit more acceptable
to the Senate. The course proposed by the Senator from
South Carolina, (Mr. 1Ia\xi;) if his motion prevailed, he
thought, woukl not do justice to the Senator from New
Jer.sev. ITe was of opinion that the plan proposed in the
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Gales, Joseph, 1761-1841. Register of Debates in Congress, Comprising the Leading Debates and Incidents of the Second Session of the Twentieth Congress, book, 1830; Washington D.C.. (https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc30754/m1/43/: accessed April 25, 2024), University of North Texas Libraries, UNT Digital Library, https://digital.library.unt.edu; crediting UNT Libraries Government Documents Department.